Casimir Raj

1. There are so many Jesuits with doctorates in India. Yet there is only one Jesuit with a doctorate in Marketing. Why? Is it because “ Marketing is all about creating needs and wants and Jesuit philosophy is the opposite – curb needs and wants ?

I landed in teaching marketing purely by accident. In fact, when I was doing my MBA at Santa Clara University, I hated marketing subject. I felt that I cannot cope with the aggressive push marketers give to sell their products. I felt it is not in consonance with my temperament and my vocation.

Americans were in a rat race to sell everything at all costs. It was not in consonance with my life.

When I returned to Loyola College after my MBA, Madras University just introduced marketing course for M.Com. There was nobody to teach that subject. So the Head of the Department assigned that subject to me. As a Jesuit I accepted it to teach and started learning the subject.

As I learned the subject, I realized there is a big difference between selling and marketing. I hated selling and I knew I cannot sell a soap. But I started loving marketing. Why? Marketing means to understand the needs of the people and meet those needs. A marketer is basically the one who serves consumers. He finds their felt and latent needs and goes out of his way to meet those needs. To understand the needs, you have to listen to people. You have to observe sympathetically their way of life. In this, I am in a good company – Philip Kotler, the marketing guru. He was a labor economist, who landed in marketing. As he says, he is interested in marketing because he was interested in making life better, besides getting more money. Marketing offers tools of living better. I felt is the work of a Jesuit.

I felt a Jesuit is called upon to play two roles – to be a prophet leader and a servant leader. Some will excel in prophetic leadership. This means, tell the people what should be done, what is right and what is wrong and lead them. This is the role played by many great men both in Christianity and in other religions. I know, temperamentally, intellectually, emotionally and spiritually I am not cut out for such a role. I may play that role occasionally, but it will not be my dominant role.

I took to servant leadership as a fish to water. It may be because of my rural and humble upbringing. It may be because of my emotional, intellectual and spiritual weakness. But I was comfortable with the servant role. Mother Teresa was becoming very popular at this time. She influenced me a lot. At this time, Jesuits were laying great emphasis on the prophetic role but I felt uncomfortable with that role, but I feel comfortable with servant role. The servant is the one who finds out the desires and wants of the master and meets them joyfully. For him, meeting the desires of the master, gives fulfillment. (Lk 12:35-38)

I feel marketing concept is in consonance with the servant leadership. That is the reason I started liking marketing. The main role of marketing is to find the needs of the consumer and meet that need at the right time and place. The marketer is there to provide things and serve to the consumer which will satisfy him. He will go to great lengths to meet his needs. He will swim across the rivers, climb the unclimbable terrain to meet the needs of the consumer. A marketer will do it for money, for profit. A priest will do it for love of God. This thought has motivated my life. Why only a few Jesuits opt for marketing subject? There are only very few Jesuits who have done Ph D in business areas. There are a few in HR and OB. But very few are in other business areas. So marketing is not an exception. Of course, when I joined Loyola College Staff, I wanted to reach accounts and finance, since I am good in those subjects and I was a rank holder in that in my M.Com. But there was no need of personnel in that area in Loyola College. It is not fair to disturb them. There was a real need for a teacher in marketing. I met that need. My love affair started after my immersion in marketing. God leads a person in strange ways. I always remember the story of Moses in the Bible. God wanted him to lead the people of Israel of Egypt, but he pleaded his inadequacy. He protested but God forced him to accept it. My story is similar to that.

2. Business is all about money, money and more money. This is totally against Jesuit philosophy. Why then does the Society of Jesuits run business management institutes like XLRI and LIBA?

Business is doing a task for a profit. The profit is the reward for the risk one takes and for the labour one puts in. But business is to develop an economy, to offer a better life style for human beings. Without business there cannot be human development. A scientist will come up with an invention. The business makes it available to people. Only then that discovery benefits humanity. I think we have to accept the role of business in the economic, cultural, and social development of people., both good and bad, developmental and destructive. Despite the poor image and bad press of big business in recent times, many polls suggest that people retain a belief in the ability of business to provide and to contribute to society.

Unfortunately, the business as other sectors of society like governments, NGOs, religious bodies, have relegated this service concept and focused solely on profit and that too, profit by any means at all costs.

Secondly, business sector is a sector which cannot be ignored by religious bodies. Even if they are devilish blood-suckers, destroyers of social values, any religious group should try to convert them. The founder of the Jesuits, St Ignatius Loyola was ready to make any sacrifice to change the life of one person. He worked among great sinners and prostitutes to change their lives. Hence, Jesuits should not neglect the “sinners”.

A Jesuit management school should play this role. It should try to inculcate certain values. It should teach ethics and social values. They should understand the role of business in human development.

As far as I know, no religion is against money. Money should be made. It is also reward for achievement. As Jamshedji Tata said, a company should work hard and make money so that it can be used for the development of society. In the Old Testament, wealth was the sign of God’s blessing. When job proved his devotion to God through various calamities, God blessed him by making him wealthier than before. But it should not be made illegally, unethically and at the cost of others. The role of the Jesuit management school should be to teach these values. Will the students imbibe those values and live by them? A few may do it. Remember the parable of the “Sower in the Gospel (Mt. 13:1-9) even if a few can try to live by 10%of these values, we have achieved our goal and it is worth the cost.

3. In India we see poverty all around us. When people don’t have water to drink, the marketing gurus urge them to drink Coke and Pepsi. When they don’t have food the gurus urge them to eat Britannia cakes and Maggi noodles. When they don’t have clothes we wear marketing coaxes them wear Allen Solly and VanHeussen. What do you as a great marketing man and a great Jesuit have to say about this?

“Poor will be always with us” said Christ (Jn.. 12:7). Each one’s duty is to contribute his/her mite not only to alleviate poverty but also to contribute to the human development. Developing the world is a duty of everybody according to the circumstances and abilities. Some may develop the world by formulating earth shaking policies and implementing them. Some may formulate policies and leave at that. Some may help in an unobtrusive way to grow and help others. But all of us are called upon to do it and most of us do it.

In a developed world, the distribution of income will be more equitable. There will be a few very rich, a few very poor and mostly in the middle level. In a developing country there will be stark inequalities. It will take time to remove it. (Simon Kuznets).

But we cannot remove poverty by taking existing pie and counting it into small pieces and distributing it to all. This sis what communism wants. It wants everybody to be poor (through the leaders are very rich). But the role of business is to make a bigger pie, so that more people may have and have a bigger size which will satisfy them.

As long as business can create wealth and offer employment to people, it is making a bigger pie and feeding more people. It needs to create wealth in various ways – traditional and innovative, it should play the game according to rules. It should also meet the different needs of different strata of society. Hence they offer different products.

A free society should give freedom to people to choose responsibly what they want. Choice requires alternative avenues. Otherwise there will be regimented society.

A story comes to my mind. A soldier met the crowd and announced “come revolution, everybody will have many acres of land”. “Come revolution, everybody will have a car”. A lonely voice in the crowd shouted,” But I don’t want a house, land or a car”. The solider shouted back,” Come revolution, do as you are told”. I don’t think we want to create such society. But we want to create a free and equitable society. This society has to be created by the cooperation of all sectors of society. Business has its role to create Wealth and offer employment opportunities.

4. A Jesuit has to make many sacrifices. They live on the barest minimum. They live away from their families. Something they are not able to be at the side of their near and dear ones during times of crisis. How have you been able to adjust to this? What gives you this inner strength?

I feel, once you have voluntarily chosen a life style and once you are committed to that before God and men, we should try to live it as perfectly as possible. We have many examples among the Jesuit Saints like St Francis Xavier, St John De Britto who worked in our land. As a child I have often visited Oriyur, where St John De Britto was martyred in our land. As a child I have often visited Oriyur, where St John De Britto was martyred. It is 20 miles away from my place. His life inspired me. Many other priests. Whom I knew very well inspired me. Later, Mother Teresa was my beacon light. She shaped my philosophy and my way of life.

Nearer home, my parents are great inspiration for me. The piety and honesty of my father and the sacrifices of my mother inspired me a lot. Even now, I am led by their example. I am the eldest in the family and joined the Jesuits at the age of 18. After three years, my father fell ill seriously. We gave up hope. My father was the only earning member of the family. My siblings were very young. Yet, my mother encouraged me to go ahead not to waver. Not to give up my goat. That poor and illiterate but heroic woman’s words still ring in my ears and urge me to do good and to be faithful to my commitment. ABOVE ALL. God’s grace never lacks. My father recovered and lived till the ripe old age of 83. That was the sign given by God to me, not to worry about my family. He will take care of them. I should focus on His work.

Two other things which my parents taught me inspired me to hold on to certain values, though a few. I have to do all the house chores. Whatever may be my education I was sent to graze cattle the whole day during my summer vacation in the hot sun. I have to go to our farm and do all the back breaking tasks like wedding, harvesting. Secondly, we lived in a village where caste system was very strong and very oppressive. But my parents will allow the Harijans to enter our house and help my mother. These are precious values I cherish even today.

5. What have you achieved as a Jesuit which you would not have achieved as a worldly man outside?

I don’t know, I achieved much. But whatever little I have achieved, I have achieved it because I belong to the Jesuit organization. The purpose of an organization is to enable a common man to do uncommon things. No organization can depend on genius but it can collectively achieve things which a genius can achieve.

Peter Drucker said,” Once hundred years from now, it will not matter what kind of car I drove, what kind of house I lived in, how much money I had in my bank account, nor what my clothes looked like. But the world may be a little better because I was important in the life of a child”. This is my joy and gratitude. I was able to serve and wipe the tears of a few students. I could make a few live with dignity and honor with the work of their own hands. Some may remember me, many may not. But that is not important. I have served them. That gives me joy. I am grateful to God and to them for giving me the opportunity to serve them.

6. What are the happiest events in these 50 years?

Rather than speaking about the happiest events in my life, I would like to speak of the happiest apostolates in my life. First: Director of Loyola Hostel, Chennai – Being the director of the hostel of 800 students is not an easy task but I enjoyed it, in spite of the constant tensions I had. I lived with the students 24 hours and hence my very life had a witness value. I paid individual attention to their family problems. During holidays, I visited their families, not all of them, but many of them. I met each one to discuss their performance. When they were sick, I visited them everyday. I considered it one of the effective appostolates I had. My life was an open book for them.

Secondly, Goa Institute of Management (GIM): I had no administrative responsibilities. I took many classes. I interacted with the students and faculty. My room was always open. They could visit me anytime they wanted. I lived with them. I was able to help so many students.

LIBA, Chennai getting national recognition: LIBA was scarcely known outside Tamil Nadu. The curricula and policies were not conductive to management education. This ultimately affected the future of the students. We changed that situation and changed it fast. The students enormously benefited by the change. LIBA also got national recognition. Today, LIBA stands tall in India. Many Catholics, who cannot dream of management education, proudly join LIBA. I feel it is one of the greatest services rendered by me.

7. What are saddest events?

Of course, there have been sad occasions. When I was asked to leave Loyola, I was ready to leave. But because of my low level of self – esteem resulting in lower level of self confidence, I felt sad. I was not sure whether I was capable of any work. I work different. This was confirmed when superiors could not find any work for me. But God’s ways are different. He gave me work outside the province. That changed me and gave me self – confidence. As a result, today, I feel confident to work anywhere, to take up any work. Since I have been in many places, I gained rich experience. I am grateful to God for this opportunity.

Second, when an opportunity came to start an engineering college in Chennai and when I made the proposal, permission was not granted. I was not sad because I was not given an opportunity to start an engineering college, but our Catholics lost a precious opportunity. Even today, I rue over the missed opportunity.

8. You have had a distinguished academic career as a professor, principal director of LIBA and now director of XLRI, Jamshedpur. You have achieved a lot in all these places. What motivates you?

I don’t think I HAVE HAD A DISTINGUISHED CAREER, BUT I TRY TO DO MY WORK AS WELL AS POSSIBLE. For me, any work given to me is an apostolate. This apostolate involves the whole person – word, deed and every moment of life. God asked us to love him with our whole heart, mind and soul. I feel that love is shown through my apostolate, my work for the people whom I am called to serve.

I do not claim ownership of any of the apostolates. I am just a steward who has been called to serve the people who have been redeemed by the precious blood of Christ. I should give at least a little of myself to these people. It is this attitude that helped me to leave a job at any time without much heartbreak.

Thirdly, I never aspired for any position. Most of them were thrust on me, in spite of my hesitation. In fact, the only two positions I readily accepted were GIM, Goa and DACA, Madurai. But, I concentrated on my work, whatever it was, without worrying about the reward.

Fourthly, I loved, respected and cares for those who were entrusted to me and my co workers. I cared not only for their emotional and spiritual life. As a principal, I used to go to Chennai parishes once or twice a week, invite the students and their parents and say Mass for them. After the Mass, over a cup of coffee, I interacted with the parents, learned their problems and tried to find solutions. I invited the outstation parents twice a year to the campus and the teachers and I interacted with them. These interactions helped me to know the students better and to help them in whatever way possible.

9. Do you think that the managers we train will make a difference in a globalized world where profit seems to be the prime concern of business?

Training of managers has a single purpose. Training of managers in a Jesuit school has an additional purpose. But both are necessary for the national development.

We train managers to make use of the scarce resources in the most effective manner and add value to whatever they do. This value creation is important for development.

Today, many business schools and many cooperates understand and appreciate that profit alone will not make a company great and one should not aim at profit at any cost. Not that they do not care for profit, for their investment also requires value addition. But this is not the only concern of the corporates. Many speak of triple bottom line – profit, social responsibility and environment. Quite many practice or try to practice it. This is what we teach and practice it. This is what we teach and practice. Today many corporates are proactive in social responsibility and affirmative action.

In a Jesuit school, we also teach social concern and integrity.

Do they practice it? Some do, some try and in some cases, the seed has fallen on the rock. But this is the case everywhere, even in religious life.

But our effort is, not to just teach such principles, but live such principles. This witness value has greater impact than the classroom learning. That is why, I consider my work, as an apostolate. I can give you many examples for people who live by certain values and also for people who do not have these values. But God is the judge.

10. Can the Church’s option for the [poor be reconciled with striving for excellence in our educational institutions]?

I firmly believe that rapid growth is the necessary condition for reducing poverty and improving the condition of the poor. This growth has to be supplemented with an expanded coverage and better delivery of public goods and services by public administrative reforms.

The church’s option for the poor is, I suppose, not to keep the poor, poor always. Its mission is to serve the poor, so that they are lifted up from the mire. This may not be done by the Church, but it may be done by others, but the Church should support them. This is development. The Church should not only take up social welfare apostolates like refugees, hospitals, hospices etc. but also should involve in developmental apostolates like education, empowerment through economic involvement etc. Primary education achieves literacy. But that alone is not enough for economic and social growth. Higher and technical educations are necessary. We try to make our education different by infusing a value system along with the academic excellence.

For the development – be it economical, social or spiritual – education is necessary. The church should offer the best, especially to the poor, without counting the cost. Please remember the call of Christ, “Be perfect’ as your heavenly Father is perfect”. This call goes beyond the magic of Ignatius. This should be the aim of every human being who wants to serve God.

If we believe in Mt 25, then any service to anybody should be perfect. Hence, we cannot compromise on excellence in any field, especially when we want to serve the poor.

The church should offer the best, especially to the poor, without counting the cost.

11. What is your message to the world outside especially the young MBAs?

I am not a prophet and hence, I am hesitant to give any message. But I am here, sent by God, to serve people. I am grateful to God for giving me the opportunity to serve these people, to make these people experience the love of God, though in avery feeble way, through me. As my dear friend Wenceslaus Anthony spoke of his father, I can also say,”